Techni-Sepia green

[AmaiStina]

in contemporary cinema, do we take for granted or assume that a film is going to be in color?

have we somehow been conditioned to believe that the default palette for a film is that it's going to be in color?

before there was color & hand-tinting was not commonplace, the default was black & white. there was no "choice" in the matter.

but today, is color default & black-and-white a choice?

or is it more accurate to say that color or b&w, either is still a choice? but when the b&w is selected it's for artistic reasons? and only exaggerated color schemes would be considered for aesthetic purposes?

i was watching Sally Potter's film "The Tango Lesson" (1997) & most of it is in this grainy black & white, only parts of it are in color. i started to think "why the black&white? it's for artistic/ideological reasons, right?" which then prompted the question about whether or not color would be the norm. if you find yourself wondering "why black&white," the implication is that black & white wasnt expected.

am i making sense? :confused: :o

[truepictures]

I'm confused. I used B&W in one of my shorts (Catharsis (http://www.truepicturesinc.com/films.html)) and it was a combination of lot of things.

1. To mask my lack of make-up artists.
2. To make it look antiquated - because it was a part of the message of the character feeling trapped.
3. I did a Wizard of Oz move by changing the film to color after the initial B&W - once the character was "freed".

I think most artists use B & W now if they feel that a movie has to display some kind of a blurred reality, a message of being trapped, or some may just use the B&W to make the film very gritty. It's all done for style. But I think the audience does expect all movies to be in color. It's sad though that only a few directors have been able to actually USE color.

I think Hitchcock was able to use it brilliantly in VERTIGO and I think Burton uses darkness very well. A part of the reason I'm excited to watch Charlie & the Chocolate Factory is the use of color.

If you use it as a medium for your message, it becomes so much more richer. I think a movie like White Chicks or any other comedy is a good example of not really caring about the color or b&w of things, but just using it because it is standard. Whereas a movie like even Cat in the Hat, which was terrible, used color to portray the imaginary world feeling.

But then again many movies do not really need to use color to carry a message, they are just there to be consumed in mass quantities and be able to entertain on a Friday night.

Now I've stopped making sense too.

[AmaiStina]

I'm confused. I used B&W in one of my shorts (Catharsis (http://www.truepicturesinc.com/films.html)) and it was a combination of lot of things.

1. To mask my lack of make-up artists.
2. To make it look antiquated - because it was a part of the message of the character feeling trapped.
3. I did a Wizard of Oz move by changing the film to color after the initial B&W - once the character was "freed".

I think most artists use B & W now if they feel that a movie has to display some kind of a blurred reality, a message of being trapped, or some may just use the B&W to make the film very gritty. It's all done for style. But I think the audience does expect all movies to be in color. It's sad though that only a few directors have been able to actually USE color.

I think Hitchcock was able to use it brilliantly in VERTIGO and I think Burton uses darkness very well. A part of the reason I'm excited to watch Charlie & the Chocolate Factory is the use of color.

If you use it as a medium for your message, it becomes so much more richer. I think a movie like White Chicks or any other comedy is a good example of not really caring about the color or b&w of things, but just using it because it is standard. Whereas a movie like even Cat in the Hat, which was terrible, used color to portray the imaginary world feeling.

But then again many movies do not really need to use color to carry a message, they are just there to be consumed in mass quantities and be able to entertain on a Friday night.

Now I've stopped making sense too.


no, no. you made total sense.

[Seedy Edgewick]

Yes, color is the de facto standard. As the decades have passed, cinema technology has progressed along the lines of more accurately reflecting the "real" world. Color replaced black & white because it was more "realistic." The various color processes that have evolved over the years did so in an effort to reproduce truer images.

Once a 100% accurate color image became possible, artists began to purposefully regress the process. Some went back to black & white, others to older film stocks or processes. There have been various reasons, but the best films to utilize this technique have done so for thematic purposes (as opposed to superficially stylistic ones). "The Bicycle" is a classic example of black & white used for a thematic enhancement; the bike itself is the only color element in the otherwise grayscale film. It is the default standard of "color" that makes the choice of black & white an artistic one.

Sometimes there are exceptions. I'd always heard that "Night of the Living Dead" was shot in black & white for budgetary reasons; color film & processes were too expenseive.

The standard of color has been established by more than film, however. TV, video, and photographs are all in color by default. They have been this way for so long that, as you said, Stina, the use of black & white (or sepia, or Kodachrome, etc.) is unexpected.

[Ricky Retardo]

All that and the fact that folks don't want to see B/W for the same reason they don't want to read subtitles, they think it's a cheat. If they be paying $10-11 to see a film they want it in color and English. The general public has a simple equation...B/W or subtitles=Art House, whereas color and English (or more accurately American)=Multiplex. Sad but true.

[AmaiStina]

Sometimes there are exceptions. I'd always heard that "Night of the Living Dead" was shot in black & white for budgetary reasons; color film & processes were too expenseive.

The standard of color has been established by more than film, however. TV, video, and photographs are all in color by default. They have been this way for so long that, as you said, Stina, the use of black & white (or sepia, or Kodachrome, etc.) is unexpected.

conversation occurs btwn writer, director, and producer:

D: Why don't we make this a black-and-white film?
P: Why would we want to do that?
W: Why not? It'd be cheaper, right?
D: and then we'd use color for the "imagination" scenes..to emphasize that what is make-believe looks more real.
P: Who wants to see a black & white film?
W: Just b/c there is color, doesnt mean we have to use it.
P: We can make a film in color, why would we want to do it in black & white?
D: But why not? Just b/c everyone is so used to seeing films in color, doesnt mean that they turn out that way automatically.
W: It would be a little weird, though. i still feel weird watching something in black & white unless it was made before the 70s.
D: Just because the computer has "replaced" the typewriter, doesnt mean a person cant use a typewriter. Just b/c more people email each other than send real mail, doesnt mean a person cant send real mail. Just b/c there are mechanical pencils, doesnt mean a person cant use a trusty ol Number 2.
P: Yes, a real letter from your niece would probably make your day, but a black & white film--done in protest & not for ideological reasons--is not going to be a welcome change.

[AmaiStina]

All that and the fact that folks don't want to see B/W for the same reason they don't want to read subtitles, they think it's a cheat. If they be paying $10-11 to see a film they want it in color and English. The general public has a simple equation...B/W or subtitles=Art House, whereas color and English (or more accurately American)=Multiplex. Sad but true.


how much of that was "true" like fact like all polar bears are left-handed..

and how much of that was based on the fact that mainstream america does not want to watch films from other countries unless the language track is in English.

there still are people who are happy to read subtitles b/c they understand the idea a film made in france by french people & starring french people should be in french.

there are probably more people who would read subtitles than people who would be as receptive to watching a black&white film that is black & white for no special reason.

[Ricky Retardo]

I work at a theater so I know this to be "true". We have given out refunds because folks didn't like the fact that a film as fine as Hero was in subtitles, meanwhile droves of idiots line up to see Star Wars andMr & Mrs Smith . SOME people appreciate subtitles and B/W, but MOST people prefer color and English. Just like SOME people voted for Nader but MOST people voted for Bush.

[truepictures]

I work at a theater so I know this to be "true". We have given out refunds because folks didn't like the fact that a film as fine as Hero was in subtitles, meanwhile droves of idiots line up to see Star Wars andMr. & Mrs. Smith

The thing with Americans is that we're idiots, far & large. What we perceive takes precedence over what is factual. That's as far as the political side of things is concerned.

At the movies, I can understand if some people are reluctant to read subtitles because it would have them become more involved in the process, when really they just want to be spoonfed entertainment.

I'm not saying whether it's wrong of them to expect this, but if I was the theater-owner, I would refuse a refund on the basis of the movie having subs. I mean that's effing ridiculous.

Why are we all so goddamned ignorant?

[Rory L. Aronsky]

Why are we all so goddamned ignorant?

Sorry? I was whacking off. :eek: :D

[Ricky Retardo]

You can't say "no refund" where I work, it's corporate policy. ANYBODY can walk up to guest services and demand and receive a refund if they say they didn't like the movie. Thankfully the majority of folks don't do this or THEN they would change the policy.

[The Baron]

Whereas a good many of my favorite films are both subtitled and in black & white, I'll jump in and say that when I bought my copy of Hero, I brought it home and watched it in English. I did this so I could give my complete attention to the action. Sorry... Jet Li and Donnie Yen fighting each other? Watching the action, not reading a subtitle. Same with Brotherhood of the Wolf. When it's action, make mine English, because they don't make too many German language martial arts films. (In fact, I can't think of a single one.) I wish I understood Mandarin and Japanese, but I don't.

The Great Unwashed view movies as entertainment. Let's face it, during the early days of cinema, only film makers saw movies as art. Even the actors didn't think of film work as "artistically satisfying." With the influx of European movies from the likes of Fellini, Bergman, Goddard, Cocteau, et. al., Americans began to see other, expanded ideas explored in the medium. The Europeans were, of course, unhampered by things like the Hayes Office, extreme racial discrimination, or the Committee on Unamerican Activities.

Regardless, the overall view in America is that movies are for entertainment. With the exception of a few "outposts" of art, (e. g . Chicago, Austin,) the artistic folks tend towards the coasts. The literal edges of the country. That leaves the non-edgy people to take up the greater chunk of the country, where they breed, each generation achieving greater depths of mediocrity. (Yeah, I expect to catch shit from someone for that, but I'm only making an observation. As an Angelino, I personally know only ONE person who voted for Bush, and it wasn't me.)

Vive le DVD!

'fess up, now. I know I'm not the only one who will watch a movie in English with the English subtitles on. Especially if I'm listening to a commentary track.

Refunds because of subtitles or because one didn't like the movie? What kind of barbarians have we become.

[truepictures]

Sorry? I was whacking off. :eek: :D

There's only one word or way to react to that: Yipe-a-roonies.

[Do_oM]

We have given out refunds because folks didn't like the fact that a film as fine as Hero was in subtitles

Geeezus fucking kryst, I know this is probably overstatement of the year but your theatre is fucked in the head. They got all their money back? I wish it was that easy to cop free tix around. Do these people ask for refunds after they eat meals at restaurants as well?

I mean, I know some people prefer to watch movies dubbed and the Baron brought up a very good point but shoudln't it say somewhere on the posters or the around the cinema whether it's dubbed or subbed? Perhaps it's not obvious enough if the person is asking for a refund. They should know what they're in for but a refund is askin a bit much I reckon.

[iEatBrainMatter]

I think I need to go to film school just to be on the level of thinking you people are on. Sorry I have nothing to add to this wonderful conversation.

[The Baron]

You can whack-off without going to film school. :p

[AmaiStina]

You can whack-off without going to film school. :p

yeah! you can go to culinary art school instead & then youll learn how to make scrumptious stocks, soups, and sauces!

( O) (!)

[dawgzilla67]

I love black and white ... at least half and possibly even 60 percent of the movies I own are in black and white. I just love the shadows and contrast.

That's why nobody can really make a good film noir anymore ... you need that black and white look for the proper atmosphere and mood. David Lynch is the only director I can think of who can come close using color.

It's funny, the remark made about action films and subtitles (Hero). I had a similiar reaction when I bought Django on dvd ... at first I was all excited to watch the movie with the original Italian language track, but the movie played out for maybe half an hour before I switched back to the dubbed English track. I felt like I might be an idiot for doing that, and maybe I was, but at least I know I'm not alone in my idiocy. :) It did allow me to relax and focus on the action.

[AmaiStina]

I love black and white ... at least half and possibly even 60 percent of the movies I own are in black and white. I just love the shadows and contrast.

That's why nobody can really make a good film noir anymore ... you need that black and white look for the proper atmosphere and mood. David Lynch is the only director I can think of who can come close using color.

It's funny, the remark made about action films and subtitles (Hero). I had a similiar reaction when I bought Django on dvd ... at first I was all excited to watch the movie with the original Italian language track, but the movie played out for maybe half an hour before I switched back to the dubbed English track. I felt like I might be an idiot for doing that, and maybe I was, but at least I know I'm not alone in my idiocy. :) It did allow me to relax and focus on the action.


and after you saw Django, did you have that song glued in your ears?

[dawgzilla67]

and after you saw Django, did you have that song glued in your ears?

I totally wanted to find a soundtrack album to the film. It would be such a mood lifter to have the headphones and sunglasses on walking down the street with that tune blaring in my ears.