Kill Bill

[filmsmyth]

Just got back from seeing KILL BILL. I got the idea that Tarantino is either:

A) Full of himself
B) Parodying himself

For some reason, KILL BILL reminded me of watching an old episode of Angie Dickinson in POLICE WOMAN...

Not that Uma Thurman didn't pull it off... She did fine. But the movie very much reminded me of From Dusk Till Dawn MEETS Police Woman MEETS Return Of The Street Fighter Meets For A Few Dollars More.

And, from the reaction of the audience, I guess Quentin has revinvented himself as The ROCKSTAR DIRECTOR of our time.

The film reminded me of some of the old 70's made for TV movies except for the gore overkill...

I wasn't quite sure where Tarantino was headed with this film except to maybe just have a good fucking time making a movie... The story is old... A revenge plot. Nothing new here but once again, Quentin pulls out his bag of NON LINEAR story telling tricks to kick the story in the ass.

Apparently, Uma Thurman's character wanted to quit her position as part of an elite team of assassins... What we do not know (yet) is why BILL wants her dead...

At first I thought it was because any assassin who quits, is a liability and therefore needs to get axed but then the Vivica Fox character is obviously living a new life and she's still alive... So what the fuck?

The fighting scenes were outstanding but in my opinion, way too long and didn't progress the story like they should have. This was obviously Tarantino paying homage to the old kung fu movies he loves so dearly...

Is it worth seeing? Of course it is... Why? Well, I hate to say it but because Quentin Tarantino made it. Shit, I hope it makes a GAZILLION DOLLARS if for no other reason, than there are hardly any non formulaic movies made any more.

If you are a Tarantino fanatic... Then you probably won't be disappointed... If you love gore and violence, this movie will suspend your disbelief UNTIL the "kung fu like" wire supported stunts pull the suspension of disbelief rug out from under you...

I personally like gore and violence but my wife doesn't so this film caused more than its fair share of sideway glances at me... This is Reservoir Dogs on steroids in a From Dusk Till Dawn kind of a way.

Lots of limbs are disconnected from their bodies... Lots of blood... Lots of SUPER BLEEDING...

I was glad however, that I already knew that this was Volume 1... Apparently, the majority of the audience in Las Cruces, New Mexico didn't and many were pissed off at the ending... LOL.

If you can handle the blood, gore, and violence and love Quentin no matter what he does... This movie's for you.

filmy

[mruzick3]

Saw the movie last night and just gotta say....WOW. I do have to say that I don't think Tarantino is parodying himself though. Everyone knows he's full of himself....there's no doubting that. But this film does a lot more in more subtle ways than just pay homage to a genre or put the rest of his ouvre on steriods. Uma really drives this film from being just a genre pic to something much more. I've really felt lukewarm about her in the past but 'Kill Bill' changed my opinion. The scene where she wakes up from her four year coma is raw and powerful. You can tell that Uma tapped into some real emotion to pull that scene through. I'm glad that Tarantino spent so much time to focus on four years of pain and loss hitting her in one moment. You can understand where this film is getting its motivation. The Bride has turned into revenge personified.

Now, about the violence. Yeah, there's a lot of it. I'm a fan of Tarantino but not a fan of exploitive violence, or violence with nothing behind it. Tarantino's past films have a large amount of violence, enough to define a genre: ultraviolence. However, with Tarantino's writing, the violence has a moral backbone to it. There's a reason for it. In 'Resevoir Dogs' and 'Pulp Fiction' there's no clean getaway for anyone except for the one who repents...Jules. In 'Jackie Brown' the violent environment in which Grier's character has lived through has taken its toll. Jackie gets away, not in a balze of glory, but in the skills she's acquired from just surviving. I've been apprehensive about 'Kill Bill.' I've read the advance press on some of the gore ehanced violence and was severly worried about where it would go. The fight sequences do pay the genre-homages and are filmed that way...blood fountains and all. Do these scenes have the Tarantino moral backbone? I really can't make that call right now. The film isn't over yet, but as the cliffhanger (and what a cliffhanger) indicates, perhaps it will.

For those of you who remember the rant I started in this forum, I enjoyed this movie start to finish even though it's not finished yet. Volume 1 feels the right amount of time and with the right amount of suspense put at the end.

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Mike Ruzicka

[AmaiStina]

a bunch of my friends who saw it last night did nothing but praise it. yes, most of them were guys & they usually like anything with lots of gore & action sequences....

but a few of the girls who dont go for gore (but do like the woman-who-maims line) loved the film.

im watching it tomorrow.

[schemeneo]

Saw Kill Bill tonight...my headache is still receding. Its not necessarily the uninspired dialogue, the relentlessly long stare-downs or the copius amounts of badly done exposition. The problem I have with this film is the fact that all that is excused in one fall swoop by claiming, "Kill Bill is an homage to other film".
When you're Tarentino, you are privy to special exceptions. You can get away with cheese, over indulgance, the like. After all, he didn't dictate that the films he loves should be poor in quality. So the blame lies elsewhere when he faithfully reproduces shitty conversations, pointless violence, etc. from those same films.
I am reminded of a "witty" remark within the film's neverending final battle: "silly rabbit - tricks are for kids". With that, I also recall the sad insecurity in the audience as they laughed along with elements of the film they knew deep down to be very unfunny indeed.
I suspect this lapse in Tarentino's reasoning is a result of the departure of Roger Avery from the writing process. I have a bad feeling that Avery was the spark that made conversations click in Pulp Fiction, and the lack thereof in Kill Bill. Regardless, what I see is forgiveness for a "sandbox" method for filmmaking in the general public.
Its sad when audiences consider a film warranted by its ability to copy another...or several.

[garychanchan]

I thought the movie was good and fine. for the type of movie he wanted to make, I think he succeeded. impressed with his foray into directing action sequences.

had a question about the b/w sequences and wanted to see what others thought. - why did the last battle against the 88's switch to black and white?

a few options:
1)he uses b/w whenever there is ultraviolence (it was used in the assassination of the bride scene as well)

2)an aesthetic choice for violence such as when he moved the camera away during the ear-ectomy scene in reservoir dogs

3)to get an R rating

anyone have an ideas?
(forgive me if this may not be the right forum)

[El Duderino Diablo]

I'm guessing it was...

Originally posted by garychanchan

3)to get an R rating


That being the reason Guillermo Del Toro gave for using yellow blood for the reaper vamps in Blade II, to avoid the dreaded NC-17 rating.

And I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed Kill Bill. It was a rush seeing Gordon Liu in a movie again, I just wish there'd been more of him.

[mruzick3]

I've heard through the perverbial grapevine that 'Kill Bill' will be released in Japan without the cut to black and white in the tea house brawl. I really didn't mind the black and white especially how the scene cut back into color. The editing move on this worked well to me and kept the fighting scene to a display of action choreography rather than a controversial blood-soaked red-screen. Is this a good thing? Well, I guess that's a question for the film schools.

What's thought provoking about this picture is that the film has both extremes visions of violence, the stylized action sequences and the sequences in which real pain is being inflicted in a very real way....did anyone else grab their ankle tendon and wince?

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Mike Ruzicka

[Ricky Retardo]

Yeah, I have a slight problem with the black and white inasmuchas why go on and on about a certain vivid shade of blood during a scene when you go and release said scene in b&w.

Also, I know that you are not supposed to think about this, but how exactly did The Bride manage to carry a Samurai sword onto a jet from Okinawa to Tokyo, much less openly through the airport?

[AmaiStina]

Originally posted by Ricky Retardo
Yeah, I have a slight problem with the black and white inasmuchas why go on and on about a certain vivid shade of blood during a scene when you go and release said scene in b&w.

Also, I know that you are not supposed to think about this, but how exactly did The Bride manage to carry a Samurai sword onto a jet from Okinawa to Tokyo, much less openly through the airport?

i was thinking about the samurai-sword-aboard-plane thing myself. i saw Kill Bill today. my favorite parts were the animated sequence & the scenes with Sonny Chiba.

[mruzick3]

About the Hanzo steel on the plane:

I know the suspension of disbelief excuse is used quite often concerning details like these....not to mention the fountains of blood and the fact that The Bride can drive around in LA with a dead guy's neon plated automobile. In Tarantino's movies the audience is emersed within another world. A world where obvious product placements of a fake cigarette brand and a made-up kids cereal is an indicator of that entrance into it. I would've had the same reaction to the sword had it not been for the carefully added detail on the plane ride back from Tokyo where there were other passengers with the same weaponry safely snug by their side. This adds to the atmosphere of the film's vengeful plot thread.


________________________________
Mike Ruzicka

[Sifu]

Okay, I know that there had to be a filmmaker for the dumbed down 90's and QT fit that bill pretty well. Pulp Fiction gave all the tough guy wannabes some nice little quotes (loved the Christopher Walken Gold Watch speech). But this latest monstrosity is really cinematic proof of the "Emperor's New Clothes" (translation -- if you don't like a Tarantino film, it's not the film, it's YOU) factor.

The story is a hodgepodge -- not of classic martial arts films, but second rate B movies. First, we have the "Game of Death" tracksuit, like an assassin would run around in bright yellow. Then we have the whole Charlie's Angeles business, except this time they're code named after snakes and we actually see "Charlie" aka Bill. Then he decides to do in an angel/snake because she wants out, so QT actually rips off a bad Cynthia Rothrock movie (I think it was called "Lady Dragon" or some such thing). Then it's Steven Seagal's turn to get ripped off as he borrows the years in a coma gizmo from "Hard to Kill."

But the worst part of it is it's supposed to be a fight film, and although Quentin did buy several thousand gallons of corn syrup with red food coloring, and splashes it over the screen every few seconds, nobody knows how to fight. Rather than use competent doubling for Uma, he let her do a lot of her own fight scenes and, aside from looking like a marshmallow (Linda Hamilton in Terminator II she ain't) she's slow, awkward, and not believable. There is no way you buy her as a trained assassin. Let's add to this the fact that when she's up against someone who's much more well coordinated and convincing (Lucy Liu) or someone who's obviously five times stronger and much faster (Viveca Fox) it just emphasizes her physical ineptitude.

The bright side is I'm sure it'll finish at No. 1 because it was easily the most hyped film of 2003. Of course, a lot of people are going to be pissed because Quentin also decided to rip a chapter from Lord of the Rings and distribute it peacemeal. With the storyline as weak as it is, the lack of character development, and the fight scenes protracted (a real sword dual between competent practitioners would be over in seconds) I'm sure two weak films could have easily been combined into one mediocre film.

Oh, well. It should please people who love to look at the Emperor's bright new raiments.

[AmaiStina]

Originally posted by mruzick3
About the Hanzo steel on the plane:

I would've had the same reaction to the sword had it not been for the carefully added detail on the plane ride back from Tokyo where there were other passengers with the same weaponry safely snug by their side. Mike Ruzicka

yeah, i noticed that too.

[Mistwolf]

I think that in the "kill bill" world samurai are still around and still carry their katanas with them, and no one would ever ask a samurai to relinquish his (or her as the case may be) weapon

[Catty Girl]

Love it! Run right out and see it today! An excellent tribute to 70's genre films and Uma is amazing. Made me want to go out and kick someone's ass! Can't wait for part deux in February.

[AmaiStina]

Originally posted by Catty Girl
Made me want to go out and kick someone's ass! Can't wait for part deux in February.

me too! i so wanted to lop off someones limbs after i watched it. unfortunately my samurai sword is MIA, so i had to make do with a pair of hello kitty scissors, which worked surprisingly well. ;)


the soundtrack has cdrom data which features trailers from part 2.

[Ricky Retardo]

And what's up with all these assassins being fight and weapons experts but Copperhead can't put a bullet in the Bride when she's A) less than ten feet away and B) totally got the drop on her.

Nice touch using the Ka-Boom cereal in that scene.

[jefbak]

Does making a film technically or stylistically brilliant mean that it must be a good film?

Of course not, and that is the problem with Kill Bill.

Tarantinos violence fetish severly interferes as far as I'm concerned and in this film he loses himself in that addiction. The violence here is most often disturbing instead of fitting in to the style of the film. And where is all the great dialog we saw in his previous films - lost to the need for violence again.

Way overboard, to many holes, no attachment to any of the characters... and several people walked out during the first scene because of the violence. I'm sorry but why does one choose to spend 90 minutes of there lives watching this kind or any kind of violence? What are we coming to if you are not disturbed by this film from any viewpoint (artistic or style or entertainment)? This is a perverision not a masterpiece.

Well thats my two cents anyway. My girlfriend is still not talking to me for taking her to see Kill Bill.

[mruzick3]

If anyone is looking for a well-rounded non-biased appraisal of this film that takes into consideration Tarantino's annoying self-promotion while praising his true talents as a story teller and movie lover you might want to check out Richard Corliss' review in the upcoming Time for October 20th. For me, he really hits the nail on the head....sort oof speak.


And Now....Pulp Friction by Ricahrd Corliss (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101031020-517754,00.html)


__________________________
Mike Ruzicka

[AmaiStina]

Originally posted by mruzick3
And Now....Pulp Friction by Ricahrd Corliss (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101031020-517754,00.html)


thanks for the link. i read the article. very well-written. i absolutely see his points, but it feels like something he wrote within two hrs after he saw the film (and did mental somersaults the whole time). he probably really enjoyed the film on subjective & objective levels.

but i wonder if he will still like the film with the same passion & intensity as the review suggests a week passes. you know? like sometimes youre so crazy in love with a movie that you see it twice within the weekend, but then a week or two go by & all that enthusiasm sloughs off.

[mruzick3]

Originally posted by AmaiStina
like sometimes youre so crazy in love with a movie that you see it twice within the weekend, but then a week or two go by & all that enthusiasm sloughs off.

Back ten years ago when I saw 'Pulp Fiction' for the first time, I worked at a movie theater and after seeing the film in a much bigger theater I saw the movie again and again for free at my theater. I nearly made myself sick on the film and mentally picked apart every bit of it including the inconsistencies in the script when it double-backed to the coffee shop. I own the widescreen video and have not really watched it through for nearly eight years.

I don't ever want to do that to a movie memory. Yes, there is a certain subjectivity to a raw response just out of the theater. With 'Kill Bill' you can nearly push that subjectivity over-board as I have read in some reviews that bash and praise it. I like Corliss' review because it is reacting (present tense) to the film's story while still keeping all of the influences, past Tarantino movies, and film-theory-speak to give an appropriate review of a movie that direclty mirrors this kind of jumbled reaction.

I've got to say that I admire Corliss...and any reviewer for that matter...for writing a review of the movie. It's almost intimidating trying to sum up the film in just one critique. I also liked that he pulld certain scenes out without summarizing the entire movie. I just hate it when a review really isn't a review but a summary with just two or three sentenses of opinion.

___________________________________
Mike Ruzicka

[SatanicYakuza]

KILL BILL fucking rocked the house. I loved it and had a great time. Mother Fucker. I'm glad they cut it in two. 3 hours of that thrill candy would have been too much.

[Spectaclegrinde]

I like that we have people here actually talking about the movie, as opposed to descending to the normal "rules/sucks" tribes that show up on a lot of messageboards.

"Kill Bill" (vol.1) was just about everything that I like in a movie. And let me be clear: I don't just mean violence and swordfights (though I don't object to violence in a movie at all). I mean a movie in which we are shown the character through her motions, actions, reations, and how she reveals herself visually.

Where so many action directors shatter any sence of momentum or even basic geography through meaningless, rhythmless cuts, "Kill Bill"'s action sequences have arcs, stories to themselves.

As for the violence, even the movie tells you how it feels about it. The Texas sherrif's line about the wedding party slaughter: "If you were a moron, you could almost admire it." The Bride herself is not enjoying her vengence. But who she is (and we are learning that, through the movie) will not allow her to do or be anything but vengence, a force of nature.

And notice, too, the face of the Devil on Bill's sword during his conversation with the one-eyed assassin as he calls off her attempt to kill the comatose Bride through lethal injection.

Nice.

Looking forward to Vol. 2.

[mruzick3]

Originally posted by Spectaclegrinde
Where so many action directors shatter any sence of momentum or even basic geography through meaningless, rhythmless cuts, "Kill Bill"'s action sequences have arcs, stories to themselves.

Very good point! I've heard and read some grumbling about where all the great Tarantino dialogue went and why isn't there more of it in this film. I want to make the argument that it is there in the action sequences. In each fight there is a coversation, a struggle, some playful jokes, some serious remarks, and finally a unmistakeable period. The dialogue style that everyone loved from the Tarantino's other movies is there, just translated.

_________________________________
Mike Ruzicka

[Ricky Retardo]

To me, the most resonant scene is the one between the Bride and Vernita's daughter. It is so tragic...and I had seen it coming since the fight was featured in the trailers. Despite her mother's evil past, that beautiful, innocent little girl's life was completely destroyed right in front of her eyes. Oh shit! I just thought of something! What if that girl turns out to belong to The Bride? What if Bill put the hit on Black Mamba because she hooked up with a black man?

[El Duderino Diablo]

I think one of the most powerful scenes in the movie was when the Bride woke from her coma and immediately reacted to the loss (as far as she knows) of her child. That was a long, painful take and looked to be some seriously deep reactive digging by Thurman. Ouch.

[Spectaclegrinde]

Spoiler Herein....




Originally posted by Ricky Retardo
To me, the most resonant scene is the one between the Bride and Vernita's daughter....innocent little girl's life was completely destroyed right in front of her eyes. Oh shit! I just thought of something! What if that girl turns out to belong to The Bride? What if Bill put the hit on Black Mamba because she hooked up with a black man?



Yeah, that's a very telling scene, especially since we quickly learn that O-Ren became an assassin after witnessing her parents' murder at a young age. We can reasonably assume that the Bride has created yet annother killer in her thirst for vengence. And thus the cycle continues.

As for the daughter being the actual child of the Bride... It's a solid "maybe" as the age of the daughter matches the age the Bride's little girl would have been... but the Bride's line to Bill, just at the opening of the movie is "Its your baby." Though she could be lying to save her life, I beleive this was the truth. What we've seen of Bill... and the Bride... let's just say that little Nikki doesn't bear much of a resembelance to either.

Here's another thing that struck me and one of the folks I watched the movie with: during the Anime sequence (O-Ren's origin)... anyone else think that the long-haired assassin, with the rings and the sword, who kicks the cigar and thus lights the fire... anyone else think that resembles David Carradine, and, thus, may have been Bill himself? We see a ring on his finger when speaking to Daryll Hannah (forgot her character's name...), but it's a different ring. Just speculation, mind you.

[El Duderino Diablo]

Originally posted by Spectaclegrinde
Daryll Hannah (forgot her character's name...)

Elle Driver.
What a great name.

[Ricky Retardo]

[i]anyone else think that the long-haired assassin, with the rings and the sword, who kicks the cigar and thus lights the fire... anyone else think that resembles David Carradine, and, thus, may have been Bill himself? We see a ring on his finger when speaking to Daryll Hannah (forgot her character's name...), but it's a different ring. Just speculation, mind you. [/B]


YES!!! I thought the exact same thing.


About baby Nikki...The reason I thought that she could be the Bride's child is as follows. She's four and Bride went into her coma 4 years ago (as previously mentioned). In order for Vernita to have had the baby she would have had to settled down IMMEDIATELY after the DVAS sanctioned the wedding. Now granted, this may be grasping at straws but obviously we are being set up for a few twists in Vol 2.

[Ricky Retardo]

When the deputy goes over the list of who got killed at the church ("the preacher, the preacher's wife, even the old colored guy who plays the organ") did he mention "groom"? I can't remember.

[Graham Rae]

This is a mad mid-life crisis film, and Tarantino seems to be regressing instead of actually maturing as a filmmaker. It's obvious he wants to be young and hip again, and is desperately clutching at straws to seem so. And much of the moviegoing audience seems to stupid or cowed by his 'genius' to actually call him on it.

It's obvious that in the six years since Jackie Brown, the director/cinematic collage expert has been doing nothing but watching shitty grindhouse/shithouse kung-fu movies, and he's seen so many of them they're coming out of his brain and into his pen when he's writing. If I was him, I woulda been embarrassed to admit I was a 40-year-old man (who thinks he's super-cool, no less!) with a head full of nothing but misogyny ("Tall drink of cocksucker?"), misanthropy in general, rape jokes, cartoon pedophilia, rampant foot fetishism (the endless shots of people's feet really creeped me out), extreme violence, bad acting, terrible 'stylized' dialogue (a subtitled conversation about pizza in Japan? Gimme a break!), bad models and worthless esoteric celluloid dreck in general. Course, we already knew this about the man, but for him to come back after a six-year absence and reinforce it tenfold...is quite simply mind-boggling.

I liked a couple of the action scenes and the all-female Japanese garage punk band. Apart from that...I saw it yesterday and have already forgotten half of it.

In 100 years, every director will be like Tarantino, with nothing but self-consciously hip (replacement) references to other films, and the more esoteric and shite the better.

Something for the human race to look forward to.

[Reverend Ned]

Originally posted by Graham Rae
In 100 years, every director will be like Tarantino, with nothing but self-consciously hip (replacement) references to other films, and the more esoteric and shite the better.

You mean directors like McG?

[Graham Rae]

I haven't seen any of this 'McG' (sounds like something you'd buy at McDonalds - "Can I have an empty-headed grindhouse-referential McG movie please?" "You want a franchise with that?") guy's work except for Charlie's Angels, but if his trademark is what I was talking about, then yes, I suppose I am.

I just read Tarantella's comments about 9/11 in Rolling Stone magazine on the front page of this site. Read them and tell me the man is connected to reality in any way, shape or form. What a freak. Incredible. Never mind jihads and a new world disorder...what if Hollywood only had the people that made The Matrix left?

Wouldn't that be a fucking disaster.

[Spectaclegrinde]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Graham Rae
"If I was him, I woulda been embarrassed to admit I was a 40-year-old man ... with a head full of nothing but misogyny... misanthropy in general, rape jokes, cartoon pedophilia, rampant foot fetishism (the endless shots of people's feet really creeped me out), extreme violence, bad acting, terrible 'stylized' dialogue...bad models and worthless esoteric celluloid dreck in general. "

I mentioned earlier that I liked the actual thinking critiques that (most) of the folks were posting here. This is an example of what I usually expect on web movie boards.

This isn't film criticism. This is a personal attack on the film-maker. I don't know Tarrantino, but I don't hold his age against him, nor do I presume to dictate what is and isn't in his head. The elements you refer to that you find objectionable are all part of storytelling. There are referances to all the elements you list as problems with the movie "Kill Bill" in the works of Stoppard, Kubrick, Shakespeare, Astrophanes and Homer (the Greek guy, not Simpson). Okay, I don't remember much about foot fetishism in the Illiad, but, then again, I don't remember any in "Kill Bill," either.

Everyone's going to have an opinion. But stating yours like it's the last final one without citing the work you're talking about, provideing some kind of insight or critique just makes you another internet solipsist. Oh, and you get no points for the "Pull, SHOOT" automatic dissing of a once and sometimes still "hip" cultural entity. Show some critical thinking.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Graham Rae
"In 100 years, every director will be like Tarantino, with nothing but self-consciously hip (replacement) references to other films, and the more esoteric and shite the better."

Oh, you have a time machine? Well, that's different.

Ugh.

[jonnyredman]

Originally posted by Ricky Retardo
When the deputy goes over the list of who got killed at the church ("the preacher, the preacher's wife, even the old colored guy who plays the organ") did he mention "groom"? I can't remember.

Could the Groom be Bill?

If you watch the QT Bootleg trailer that's on the soundtrack CD there's a shot of Bill playing the flute (A bamboo flute, just like in 'The Silent Flute' ;) ) as he sits on a bench on what looks like the porch of the church. Could it be that Bill and The Bride we're about to get married?

[Spectaclegrinde]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jonnyredman
[B]Could the Groom be Bill?

That was my guess, too. I hope I'm wrong. I'd rather be suprised by something I hadn't thought of... but, yeah, I'm guessing we'll learn that Bill was the groom.

[Ricky Retardo]

Somebody told me that "the old colored guy who play the organ", will be performed by Sam Jackson in Pt2. Truth or rumor, anyone know?

[Graham Rae]

Oh dear, I upset a Tarantino fan. Damn. I am not going to argue about something as trivial as this man's films, but will say only two things:

1) If you haven't noticed the rampant foot fetishism in his films you are blind.

2) Shakespeare my ass. He's just not that intelligent; his work is over-intellectualised by deluded people.

Internet solipsist? Hell yeah. Just like you, my words-on-screen friend. My opinion is the right one to me. Yours is the right one to you. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Permanently.

Such a shame.

[Spectaclegrinde]

Well, I'm not upset (don't flatter yourself), and I don't really think of myself as a Tarrantino fan, either. More of a movie fan.

But here's where you're misreading: my point is that just saying you liked or didn't like something isn't saying anything at all. I read these things to get an idea of people's thoughts on a film. Everything comes with an opinion, sure, but it's how you construct and relay your points that matters. I don't care what anyone has to say about "Kill Bill" (or any other movie) because I won't make or lose any money either way. But I care about why someone feels the way they do.

The use of action to denote and reveal character is something film's been lacking for a while now, and "Kill Bill" revived what used to be a central element of storytelling in film. I think that's a good thing. Even more of a good thing since, for better or worse (and there's a lot of worse that'll result, I'm sure...) Tarrantino tends to inspire immitation.

There, ya see how I used the Internet to back an opinion with some kind of insight into why I hold it, instead of just saying I dug something and leaving it at that? That's the point of communication, son. That's why we have movies, and the Internet, and newspapers and yeah, even Shakespeare plays.

Putting Tarrantino down I can understand... but Shakespeare? Jesus, kid, is there any one you think does good work?

And what the heck *is* with this foot fetish thing?

[MDIFILM]

Sorry folks, if this appeared twice...

I went and watch Kill Bill without seeing any of QT's previous movie, after hearing a lot of people praising his other movies like he's some sort of genius, and after understanding this film is a sort of paying homage to flicks in the 60s/70s period.. i went in with little expectation...

I enjoyed it, not because of gore (you can find more gore in Battle Royale, The Story of Ricky and many other Asian films), not because of the Anime (some Anime are much more 'detailed' than what was shown, after all, Anime in Japan IS an adult entertainment), not because of the martial art sequences (there are a lot of better fight sequences came out of the 70s: Ninja in the Dragon Den, etc), and not because of the blood (technically speaking, when you thrust a sword to a body, blood would spill like crazy because of an empty vacuum pull, so of course, blood everywhere, and it's totally normal in Asian films not released here in the US)... Not because of the music (they were giving me headache)

But it's cheesy, it's cute, it's unreal... it is a work of bunch of his own perception and vision of what he likes about the old films and mix them into a 'contemporary' style. It's different.

Although some scene, that were meant to be in a serious atmosphere (the last duel between Lucy and Uma), came out as a joke, I'm sorry, the duel is so similar to those old Japanese samurai films that in those films, it carries the dynamic, the suspense and seriouness, but with Kill Bill, I find it funny, in fact, majority of the audience in the same showing, were laughing... If he wanted a 'serious' time there, he failed, if his goal was to make 'fun' of it, he succeeded...

the sword fightings big brawl scene was soo much like what Bruce Lee did in the Japanese school, Bruce in yellow, fighting all the Japanese martial art students, which were all wearing white Ki... (in Kill Bill, change the color and you have the same thing). Plus a bit of Jet Li's Fist of Legend sequence where Jet (playing the role that Bruce played in Fist of Fury), does the same big fight scene in a Japanese School (but with weapons).

I think I've watched too many films, especially when my dad had collected over 5000 of old cinema films, so when I watched Kill Bill, I find soo many similarity with the old movies...

And I started laughing with the opening: Shaw Brother's old logo... And I remembered a relative that used to intern/work there...

If his goal was to pay homage in old flicks and to entertain the audience with it, he did a great job.

It is not a film worth time thinking too much afterward, it's just a film with action, comedy, uncanny scenes, and martial arts blend together in hope to show the Western culture (non Asian as I am referring to), how these films were done in the old time by foreigners that weren't being restricted in what can be shown and what can't...

Just my 2cents...

Johnny Wu

[dreamingmonkey]

This movie sucked. I don't understand why anybody with as much money to spend on a movie as QT, and why somebody with such a huge kung-fu fetish as QT has, would possibly release a movie where the fight scenes are so bad. At first I thought it was just that Uma can't fight, but now I think that QT just doesn't know how to make an action flick. The movie was all posturing and fighting - the posturing was GREAT and then the fighting SUCKED. I'm not a martial arts movie fanatic but I like the same stuff everybody likes - Jackie Chan, Crouching Tiger, John Woo, etc., because the fighting is so exciting and beautiful and strange and surprising and brutal and just plain brilliant. QT's fight scenes were none of these except MAYBE brutal but not even that because all the severed limbs got pretty comical, and then later just annoying. This movie lived or died on its fight scenes and in my opinion it really died on them, or to crib a line from the final and totally boring fight between LL and UT (which could have been so great and wasn't), it looks like a caucasian director can watch movies like a samurai but he sure can't make them.

[Fat Man]

The scene could be down in bw to bring the audience's attention away from the blood and gore and into the plot, there was already a shit load of load throughout the movie and a church painted in it isnt gonna change the rating.

Perhaps Tarantino wanted to test audience reactions through different types of media. The black and white made me think about what was going on the reg color allowed me to enjoy the fight sequence itself. The cartoon affected me the most, it made me a little uneasy in the stomach (i dont have a weak stomach either) and made me ask myself where is the line and how far has Tarantino crossed it.

I guess I would choose number 2

[jpkon]

analysis of Kill Bill (now that everyone's seen it)

in terms of story and plot, Quentin Tarantino does absolutely nothing original in Kill Bill. Instead, Tarantino has taken a very unoriginal vessel – the tried and tested Asian kung fu movie – and spiced it up to make what he believes is the best Hollywood rendition of the classic Asian genre.

in Kill Bill, the Bride (Uma Thurman) represents Quentin Tarantino – a pale Anglo Saxon taking on the traditional Asian kung fu establishment. At one point in the movie, she/he (Thurman/Tarantino) receives a samurai sword from an old blade-master; the ceremonial transfer of Japanese martial art skills and tools to a Western outsider. As the blood gracefully fountains up – a gimmick straight out of the repertoire of Japanese flicks like “Lone Wolf and Cub” – we watch the Bride triumph over Oren Ishi, Lucy Liu’s character. Watching this last scene unfold, one can only imagine that the Bride’s triumph over Oren is really Quentin Tarantino and the Hollywood establishment gloating over the dead body of Asian kung fu.

Did he actually succeed? Did Tarantino beat the asian kung fu film makers at their own game?

[El Duderino Diablo]

Honestly, I never got the impression Tarantino was trying to beat anyone at their own game. If that was the case what would be the point of casting Gordon Liu Chia-Hui or Shinichi "Sonny" Chiba, naming Sonny Chiba's character after the same character he played in "Hattori Hanzô: Kage no Gundan" or employing the Shaw-scope header at the opening. He could have hired any old Asian actors and started the movie with Band Apart logo. He doesn't appear to be trying to beat anyone at their own game so much as just wanting to join the club by emulating the material he enjoyed growing up.
You know, sometimes folks can read a little too much into the supposed motivations of others.
:shrug:

[Ricky Retardo]

Originally posted by Ricky Retardo
To me, the most resonant scene is the one between the Bride and Vernita's daughter. It is so tragic...and I had seen it coming since the fight was featured in the trailers. Despite her mother's evil past, that beautiful, innocent little girl's life was completely destroyed right in front of her eyes.


Who called it first? ME! That's who!

[Ricky Retardo]

Vol 2 was definitely the yan to Vol 1's yin. It felt anticlimatic after the carnage of the first couple of chapters. SPOILER!!!! Plus as soon as it got mentioned I realized why Elle wears an eyepatch. AND, for all the drawn out battle in 1, the (much fewer) fight sequences in 2 were quick then over. (I found myself missing Go-Go, for some reason).

I'm curious as to whether QT simply cut the film right down the middle, or if there was some significant re-editing/re-shooting (in particular, the Bride's opening monologue, which felt tacked on )to sequence it better.