Leni Riefenstahl Dies At 101

[SatanicYakuza]

Leni Riefenstahl is dead. Film Threat won't give her any credit because of some sort of political agenda (which has no place in art), but without her, there'd never have been Citizen Kane, Evil Dead, or Star Wars.

[the Dia]

I think Leni was a really great artist. I her work she invented and used technics no one has eeven bothered to try before.

Cut this political crap. Off course she made "Triumpf des Willens" and "Olympia" and this ghastly "Unsere Wehrmacht"-Movie, but she started out as an icreadibly skilled director with "Das blaue Licht" wich had absolutly no Nazi Stuff in it.

Off course her work was financed by bad guys, but as she always told in believable manne, she wasnŽt interested in politics, she was interested in Art. And as an Artist she was surely great.

Just watch the Olympia Movies (and fastforward those disturbing speeches) and youŽll see what IŽm talking.

If you want to know more about her and her fantastic work just try to catch the great documentary "Die MAcht der Bilder" from 1993 wich is shot with the artist in mind and ignore all these documentarys wich where made afterwards and just try to cash in on the newspaper storys about her bonds with the regime.

At least she had a long and full life.

dia

[BobClark]

And we all know that art is more important than human suffering.
Who cares if she promoted the Nazi regime? She made good movies and that's what REALLY matters.

[automanic]

I've been giving this a lot of thought, and I just can't decide how I feel about this...

About the argument that art and politics shouldn't mix: it can also be argued that the two can never be separated. One's personal views will be expressed in one's art; that's kind of the point. As for Leni Riefenstahl, I'm not saying she was a bad person, but by making propaganda for the Third Reich, she had blood on her hands. But, I'd also argue that Oskar Schindler also had blood on his hands -- he tried damn hard to wash it off, but it was still there.

Of course it's true that Schindler and Riefenstah both were not supporting the Reich because they agreed with the politics, but that is not a saving grace. If anyone has seen the movie Cradle Will Rock (which kicks ass, by the way) you may remember the conflict between Nelson Rockefeller and Diego Rivera. Rockefeller hired the artist to paint a mural for him. The mural had to do with industrialization. Rivera, ever the supporter of the working man, included a portait of Lenin in a corner of the mural. Rockefeller ordered it removed, but Rivera resisted. When the mural was completed, Rockefeller had it destroyed.

The point is that artists have the ability to stand up to those in power. They don't need to follow the grain. It may be costly for them to do so, but integrity doesn't always come cheap.

Of course, it's a lot easier to say that than to actually stand up against a facist regime. So I can't fault Riefenstahl entirely, especially since one can't ignore her contributions as a filmmaker. To use my own argument, I would say that Schindler was a good man despite is affiliations to the nazi party.

I don't really have a firm opinion about whether it's appropriate to honor the late Leni Riefenstahl, but I would say that it's inappropriate to forget her politics just because we like her art.

[Last Resort Man]

Much like Kazan, I admire the work, but don't think much of the person.

[cooke]

to overstate a boring and meaningless myth that without 'triumph of the will' we would have no citizen kane is fascist bullshit sympathy masquerading as 'free thinking art-wank' to say the least: i have yet to find the quote from welles where he goes on endlessly about leni nazi girls work informing his decisions on Kane. to say that her death at 101 has been ignored by film threat and that this is because of some unnamed political (?) reason... jesus christ! she was a nazi and a nazi supporter and a fan of hitler and a friend of his and made propoganda for him as millions suffered and died and she still rated him up to her death, mellowing slightly in her racism and believing that black men where ok, so long as they were in africa! and as for her films, yes they were nice to look at. well designed, her director of photography must take some credit (jointly, she is a fantasticly articulate photographer), but they weren't that good. other german designers, directors and photographers, none of them nazi's, were much more influential on north american cinema. read a fuckin book.

[cooke]

and dia is full of it, too. whats this watch olympia and forward through the political bits about? she made that fuckin film with all the political bits in, its her artistic documenatrist nazi backed and supported vision, so why is our german friend forwarding through those bits? also she mixed art and politics, she should be judged on both counts: only teenagers into cutting themselves really cry over her and wank to her 'art' films, made earlier with no nazi stuff in them (ha!).

[cooke]

sorry but the choices in the Dead Leni Poll stink: was she Hitlers Floozy? Answer: Yes, she was an aquantance. was she a great? that question is so unrelated to the other the poll is senseless... does it imply that she can't be both? or are people voting for her as a nazi, as a member of the nazi party?

I love Leni, I love nazi's? that's almost the equation you set up in that poll... and I HATE Leni and her films look great: but so do all those lovely nazi uniforms, and they are ever so good at invading other countries... and setting off bombs in atlanta... and murdering... still today in the heart of europe and the USA...

So, is Leni a good Nazi? or a bad one? is her legacy dodgy nazi propaganda? or good film making? I would suggest that good filmmaking doesnt contribute directly to the holocaust and the mass murder of Jews, Gypsy's, Homosexuals, Communists and many, many more...

But hey! Its fun to vote. I've voted her as a bad lady.

[Ellen M.]

Let's be real, she was a puppet of the Nazis from day one, so how can you not judge her art along with her politics? She might have gotten the recognition she deserved as a director, had she chosen her patrons a little more wisely.

She lived a long life, but it was definitely overshadowed by her association with Hitler... that was a concious choice she made, and she had to bear that cross thoughout her career.

Sorry folks, no sympathy from me, since 6 million of my people died at the hands of her pal Hitler!

Ellen :mad:

[cooke]

I'm with Ellen on this... she contributed to the death of 6 million directly. her films bolstered the german nazis.